Natural versus Supernatural Revisited

Michael: Today I’m going to read a class that Dr. Weaver gave on September 12, 2015. I looked through the comments on the blog post, and most of the people here today didn’t comment on it, so I don’t think many of you were present then. This might be new to you. I really liked Don’s talk, and I hope you enjoy hearing it too. The title is “Natural Versus Supernatural.”

Don: Jesus’ statement: “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die” (John 11) is the great reversal, the promise of restoration, the break in the chain of cause and effect, the demonstration of God’s overwhelming grace, and the mitigation of consequences.

Jeff pointed out that the story of the cosmos takes place in three phases: 1. Before the Fall, when Man was in harmony with himself and with God; 2. After the Fall, when Man is out of harmony with himself and with God; and 3. The phase of the “earth made new” following the Restoration. Jeff suggested we view these as phases of supernatural law (phases 1 and 3) and natural law (phase 2). The contrast between the natural law of cause and effect and the supernatural law where grace abounds is seen in the story of Lazarus, the source of the “I am the resurrection” statement we just quoted. It is worth reading again:

Now a certain man was sick, Lazarus of Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. It was the Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick. So the sisters sent word to Him, saying, “Lord, behold, he whom You love is sick.” But when Jesus heard this, He said, “This sickness is not to end in death, but for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified by it.” Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. So when He heard that he was sick, He then stayed two days longer in the place where He was. Then after this He said to the disciples, “Let us go to Judea again.” The disciples said to Him, “Rabbi, the Jews were just now seeking to stone You, and are You going there again?” Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.” This He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep.” The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep. So Jesus then said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, and I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, so that you may believe; but let us go to him.” Therefore Thomas, who is called Didymus, said to his fellow disciples, “Let us also go, so that we may die with Him.”

So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days. Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about two miles off; and many of the Jews had come to Martha and Mary, to console them concerning their brother. Martha therefore, when she heard that Jesus was coming, went to meet Him, but Mary stayed at the house. Martha then said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.” Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha *said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?” She *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world.”

When she had said this, she went away and called Mary her sister, saying secretly, “The Teacher is here and is calling for you.” And when she heard it, she *got up quickly and was coming to Him.

Now Jesus had not yet come into the village, but was still in the place where Martha met Him. Then the Jews who were with her in the house, and consoling her, when they saw that Mary got up quickly and went out, they followed her, supposing that she was going to the tomb to weep there. Therefore, when Mary came where Jesus was, she saw Him, and fell at His feet, saying to Him, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died.” When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her also weeping, He was deeply moved in spirit and was troubled, and said, “Where have you laid him?” They said to Him, “Lord, come and see.” Jesus wept. So the Jews were saying, “See how He loved him!” But some of them said, “Could not this man, who opened the eyes of the blind man, have kept this man also from dying?”

So Jesus, again being deeply moved within, came to the tomb. Now it was a cave, and a stone was lying against it. Jesus *said, “Remove the stone.” Martha, the sister of the deceased, said to Him, “Lord, by this time there will be a stench, for he has been dead four days.” Jesus *said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?” So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised His eyes, and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me.” When He had said these things, He cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth.” The man who had died came forth, bound hand and foot with wrappings, and his face was wrapped around with a cloth. Jesus *said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.” (John 11:4-44)

In a world of cause and effect, illness has a timeline. If the cause of the sickness is not altered, the risk is that death will be the effect. Yet Jesus chose to delay visiting the sick Lazarus, not out of indifference to Lazarus’ plight but in order to demonstrate that God is not bound by time. God does not exist in a linear world. He is not subject to natural laws of cause and effect. The Jews believe that three days after death, the spirit leaves the body and the person is no more. By the time Jesus arrived, Lazarus had been dead four days, so was no longer even a dead person.

Jesus addressed three groups of students through the Lazarus story: The disciples, Mary and Martha, and the Jewish onlookers. All of them failed to see that God is not bound by time or cause and effect. Their conviction that Lazarus was dead, and not merely asleep, put them squarely in the natural law rather than in a world of supernatural law where death is no more intimidating than taking a nap. Mary and Martha’s conviction that their brother died because Jesus delayed his visit clearly put them in the natural world of cause and effect.

The natural world of cause and effect started at the moment of the Fall, when God told Adam and Eve of the consequences of their disobedience to his will:

The Lord God said to the serpent,

“Because you have done this,
Cursed are you more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you will go,
And dust you will eat
All the days of your life;
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel.”
To the woman He said,
“I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you will bring forth children;
Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he will rule over you.”

Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’;

Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life.
“Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field;
By the sweat of your face
You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return.” (Genesis 3:14-19)

The transition from supernatural to natural law occurred at the moment of the Fall. Fallen Man had no choice but to live in a world of natural law. Could it be, then, that natural law was ordained to enable Man to live apart from God? The place where God lives is a place where anything goes. Natural law is suspended in the presence of God. But living apart from God creates a need for predictability, for anticipation of consequences from any given cause, a realization of expectations.

The Jewish onlookers in the Lazarus story are just as bound by time and cause and effect as the disciples and Mary and Martha. If Jesus could restore sight to the blind—a miracle of which they knew—then why could he not save Lazarus, they wanted to know.

The unspoken request of the sisters in verse 3: “Lord, behold, he whom You love is sick” is really a prayer, much like ones we pray, for intervention by God to prevent loss and pain and sorrow and dis-ease and death. Like them we too function in a time-bound world and would like God to do so too and to behave accordingly—that is, in a timebound way of cause and effect. But we know well enough from Isaiah 55 that God’s ways are not our way. Jesus delayed visiting Lazarus for two days just so as to highlight this lesson.

And when Jesus finally made the trip, the questions began, as is God’s way. That God asks questions is the bedrock of scripture. The Bible is not a book of answers, but of questions. The first questions arose at the Fall, when God had to ask Adam “Where are you?” and, when Adam replied he was hiding his nakedness, God asked: “Who told you that you were naked?” We read of God asking Abraham whether anything is too hard for the Lord, and asking Moses what he has in his hand, and asking Elijah “What are you doing here?” after Elijah ran from Queen Jezebel. God poured a torrent of questions on Job, and all through scripture we read of God’s question after question. Jesus himself asked more than 180 question, and only answered eight of them.

If God is asking a question, we really ought to pay attention to it. Answers to questions are usually based on matters of fact, on existing information. But information is constrained by the context of culture and knowledge and period in history in which it is generated. In contrast, God’s questions are timeless and immutable. His questions at the tomb of Lazarus suggest that what we believe about God is fundamental to who we think God is. To see and understand God’s grace requires us to believe that if we put the circumstances of our own life into God’s hands—where time and causality and natural law have no power—then we are doing what God wants. The question: “Where have you laid [Lazarus]?” (the trite factual answer to which Jesus knew perfectly well) is in reality a deeply existential question meaning “What have you done with the hopelessness of your life? Where have you put your failures, your lost causes; the stinking, rotten corpses of the natural world of your existence?” Jesus wants us not just to confront them but to take him to them. And to do that, we must first roll away the stone that blocks the way; we must be willing to expose our rottenness and hopelessness and despair so that God can effect the great reversal: The Resurrection and Life.

When we expose our pain, our dead hopes, the corpse of our departed dreams, we invite God to perform his restorative miracle. Jesus seeks to restore our lives but it is up to us to exhume and expose that which is destroying our joy and peace. He insists that we reveal the sore so that he can heal it. And in verse 44, when he told them to unbind Lazarus and let him go, he was saying that when Jesus unbinds us we must let go of everything that previously held us captive. God does not want us walking around with the fetters of death. We must be released from the grave cloths of unbelief, fear, and loss. And we must be released from the natural law which keeps us apart from God.

Donald: Thank you, Don, for those remarks; and thank you, Michael, for reading them. It seems that a lot has transpired since Don first made them, and some of those events may impact how we ponder what was revealed this morning. We’re ten years older now, and our prayers are still full of requests for supernatural responses. So, I guess we do want supernatural responses in a world governed by natural law. We call them miracles. But often we’re praying for things that aren’t necessarily dramatic—we’re asking for guidance, or for God’s hand in our decisions.

Before a recent trip to Chicago, we prayed for traveling mercies. That’s not mundane—far from it—but it’s different from asking for, say, healing a terminal illness. In my case, I’ve been praying for a sick relative for a year and a half, asking for a miracle, a supernatural response, like Mary and Martha did.

It’s interesting to imagine how that whole event with Lazarus would play out in today’s world. People would be calling each other on their cell phones, the media would be there, covering it. But the first thing that struck me this morning is that Christ didn’t have to go back to Lazarus’s grave to heal him—He could have done that from a distance. But that part, He left in the natural world. Then He arrived, and did something supernatural.

My fundamental question is: do we really expect supernatural responses in a natural world, even today? And what does that mean for how we understand health and healing, when so often we don’t seem to get the miraculous outcome we hope for?

C-J: I think God uses the natural world to teach us who He is. I’ve learned to be grateful for the pause—the space between events. “What are you doing, Lord? What are you changing in me during this interim?” He has a plan, but often inserts a gap in time, a waiting period. And when I get to the other side of it, I marvel at what I’ve learned—patience, kindness, trust. I’m reminded that God is a God of provision. It may not look the way I expect, or happen when I want it to, but that space and time is where God teaches me about Himself.

Don: That raises a question for me: what should we pray for? We so often want to pray for intervention in the natural world. Yet Paul tells us in his letters that we don’t know how to pray—that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. The truth is, none of us wants to serve a powerless God. We want a God we think we can influence—through our prayers, our piety, our devotion, our right living, our fasting, our almsgiving.

These things aren’t wrong, but sometimes we subconsciously believe that, if we do enough of them, we can move God to act. We hold prayer meetings, anointing services—we organize these events in hopes of receiving certain blessings. They’re meant to help us access God’s power in the supernatural realm and bring about change in the natural one.

You mentioned praying before driving to Chicago, Donald—a trip that statistically has a very high chance of going just fine. But what if something had happened? Would that mean your prayer wasn’t answered? Or do we simply not know how to pray at all? Are we seeking something unnatural with our prayers?

Donald: I think that’s a fascinating point. We often fall back on logic—we say, statistically, there won’t be a problem. So we follow those odds. We don’t smoke, because statistically it leads to illness. We live by these odds throughout our lives. But sometimes, things still go sideways—just like they did for you and me back in the day, Don.

It’s like war—a bullet comes out of nowhere. Statistically, it shouldn’t happen. But it does. So yes, we go through life playing the odds, and we do our best. Maybe it’s not about controlling our world, because we can’t, but we do believe that if we eat right, live right, follow certain patterns, we’ll have a better chance. Still, that doesn’t mean much in the end. Anything can happen.

C-J: I think it’s like the curtain between the Holy of Holies and the rest of the temple. When that curtain was torn in two, it signified a merging of the spiritual and the natural world. In our humanity, we gained access to that relationship with God, equal to the high priest. That was restoration.

God never said we wouldn’t face adversity or tears or captivity. We can be captive in our own minds—mental illness, grief—but God’s interest is in relationship and restoration. Without Him, we’d be nothing more than organic material, born and then dying as circumstances dictated.

But we have hope. Hope for an everlasting transition into grace, into God’s presence. Our bodies in the Spirit will not be what they are now—organic, mortal. Some ask, “Is the spirit in our consciousness? Our heart? Our genes?” For me, it doesn’t matter. I believe it’s an act of grace and hope that we don’t create—it’s the faith that surpasses understanding.

And I believe it began when that curtain was torn, and it was fully manifested in Christ’s ministry.

Michael: I really liked the part about joy and peace in the article. I think those are things we often underestimate and don’t fully appreciate. And I wonder—sometimes they seem to belong more to the supernatural realm than to natural law. So, if we prayed for joy and peace, would that be a better kind of prayer? Or would that still be a prayer bound by natural law?

Carolyn: I’d like to ask about the fruits of the Spirit—like joy and peace. Are we given these gifts once we believe? Does everyone automatically have them, or do we have to keep praying for them? Is that what you were suggesting, that we should be asking? Because when I’m praying sincerely, and I feel like I really need the love of Jesus, I know all those other gifts are supposed to be there too—but I don’t always feel them. So maybe that’s how we should be praying?

Reinhard: I think as we grow and mature in our relationship with God, the fruits of the Spirit become more apparent in our lives. But I’d like to go back to what Michael said about the resurrection of Lazarus. To me, that story is one of the most outstanding miracles Jesus performed during His ministry.

There’s a clear purpose behind it—not only to demonstrate to the community that He is truly the Son of God and has the power to resurrect the dead, but also to confirm our faith. With God’s supernatural power, this resurrection will happen to us too.

If I’m not mistaken, there are five resurrection events in the entire Bible, plus the resurrection of Jesus—so six in total. In the New Testament, there are three that Jesus performed. First, the daughter of Jairus—that was a pre-funeral resurrection. Then, the son of the widow—during the funeral procession. And finally, Lazarus—that was post-funeral. I find that interesting: three different events in three different settings.

There’s one more in the New Testament—Paul resurrected the young man who fell from the third floor. So, altogether six resurrections, plus Jesus.

Jesus raised Lazarus on the fourth day, which I think is significant. According to the custom of the time, professional mourners were present for three days. Jesus waited so He wouldn’t disrupt that process. He came on the fourth day—when everything was quiet, and there was no doubt Lazarus was really dead. As Martha said, the body had already begun to decay.

All these events confirm our belief in the supernatural power of God, and in the promise that all who die in faith will be resurrected. That resurrection is real, and it’s waiting for us.

C-J: I think human beings want to escape pain, sorrow, war—but Scripture reminds us again and again that’s not the point. In both the Old and New Testaments, we read about a woman discovering she’s pregnant. In our culture today, with hospitals and prenatal care, we rejoice. But in biblical times, childbirth was dangerous. A woman had a real chance of dying in labor. And yet, she still rejoices at the gift of life.

When she goes into labor, her pain is great, and her risk is greatest—but afterward, there’s celebration and joy. Life has been given again.

If we view that as an analogy, we can see that we’re not meant to escape difficulty. We are mandated to hold fast to faith. We’re told to rejoice even in sorrow, trusting that God’s provision will be enough for the day—whether it’s manna, or something else. Even if it’s the same old manna every day, we are to find joy in that provision and in our relationship with God.

Our troubles are a constant test of our faith. “Where are you, Lord? Why is this so hard? I trusted you. I obeyed you.” But it’s in sorrow that I’ve been brought to my knees. It’s in sorrow that I’ve learned to sit still and say, “Lord, I’m waiting on you.”

Some people struggle with that. They feel the need to act, to say something, to move. It took me a long time to learn how to wait. I don’t try to force God’s hand anymore. I don’t say, “Now, Lord—yesterday would’ve been better!” I just trust that the Spirit is always at work, whether I see it or not.

Donald: So are you suggesting that we shouldn’t pray for supernatural responses? That we just need to wait in this natural world?

C-J: It’s “Thy will be done.” That’s the prayer.

Donald: That prayer certainly represents that, doesn’t it?

C-J: Yes. Because I’ve had deep valleys, and I’ve had mountaintop experiences. But I’ve learned that the greatest things happen when I let God’s hand rest on the situation—when I don’t try to fix it myself. I can look back and say, “Only God could’ve done that, and the timing couldn’t have been better.” It’s not easy, but it’s real.

Donald: So should we not pray for supernatural outcomes?

C-J: As the Lord leads. Our prayers should be led by the Holy Spirit. Even if our intentions are sincere, it’s the Spirit that guides what should be prayed. Sometimes I just need to say it out loud, even if it doesn’t change anything. But ultimately, as Paul said, “Not my will, but Thine.” If that means prison, so be it. If today’s the day I die, that’s okay. It may sound flippant, but it’s actually profound.

No high priest tore that curtain between the Holy of Holies and the outer court. It wasn’t an act of anger or ritual—it was a divine act. And we can’t take credit for that. I pray, yes, but it’s more an act of faith than petition. I say, “I believe you, Lord.” And I pray that same faith over situations and people, so that God may be glorified.

David: The problem with these stories—Lazarus, the manna, and other miracle stories—is that people tend to read them as proof that God provides in the natural world. But I don’t think that’s what Jesus meant at all. He had to use the natural world metaphorically—to help people understand something deeper, something spiritual.

He’s showing us that there is such a thing as spiritual rebirth, spiritual resurrection. But He’s not saying that if you ask God, He’ll prevent your physical death. That’s not the point. The idea of a God of provision in the natural world—I don’t think that’s what’s being promised.

Instead, God provides in the supernatural world. But even there, I’d amend something you said earlier, Don—with respect: I don’t think the supernatural world is a place where “anything goes.” I’d say it’s a place where anything might go but we can have no idea what actually does go on there. We cannot know the mind of God, as Job and Isaiah both remind us.

But we can be pointed toward the truth—and I think that’s what Jesus is doing in these stories. He’s saying there is a spiritual resurrection. That’s the truth. But we so badly want to be healed of our cancer, to be richer, to live longer—that we end up taking these stories as evidence that God will provide materially. And I don’t believe that’s the takeaway. If you look at all the unanswered prayers, all the tragedy, that’s not what God is about.

C-J: David, David. God is a God of provision in this world too. Everywhere I look—oxygen, sun, trees, this very class—I see provision. God is constantly giving to us here and now. Even Jesus said, “Look around you. Behold the hand of God.” The problem is, we mess it up. Maybe you don’t want to believe it, David, and that’s between you and the Lord.

David: Connie, you’re misinterpreting me. I do believe in nature. I believe in the goodness of nature. But if someone is drowning—if they can’t access the air that nature provides—then there’s tragedy. God doesn’t step in to give that person air. He doesn’t intervene in that way.

C-J: But God might give them peace. There comes a point where death is inevitable.

David: That’s grace, and yes, I believe in that. I’ve always argued that God provides grace. I’m an absolute believer in grace. But as for daily bread, or a cure for my cancer—those things, I don’t believe God guarantees.

Sharon: I think we could learn something from our Muslim friends—from their view of God’s will. There are two important phrases in Islam: “Inshallah” and “Masha Allah.” “Inshallah” means “if God wills it,” and “Masha Allah” means “God has promised it, and He will do it.”

So there’s a difference between what God might do and what God has promised. And for me, the exciting part is Masha Allah—that’s grace. That’s what has been promised to everyone: eternal life.

Now, the idea that we’ll avoid death or suffering—that hasn’t been promised. But Masha Allah includes things like peace, joy, and daily strength. The fact that I’m alive today? That’s supernatural. That I’m not in a mental hospital, banging my head against a wall because of the chaos in my life? That’s supernatural. That my body still functions, that I have enough health and support to do difficult frontline ministry work—that’s supernatural too.

I think that supernatural strength comes from abiding in grace—grace that was promised to me in Masha Allah. “Inshallah” is about things like going to Chicago—maybe I’ll return safely, if God wills. But He never promised us tomorrow. He only promised the grace to get through today, with all its oppression and hardship. And for me, that ability to get through today—that’s all supernatural. I thank God for His constant presence and for unwrapping me each day from the body of natural death, just so I can survive in a world that’s not easy to survive in.

Don: Maybe it’s medicinal—maybe it’s better living through chemistry rather than prayer! I’m being facetious, of course. But I do think God works in many, many ways. And it’s hard for us to tell God how He should work. That doesn’t stop us from pleading with Him to act supernaturally on our behalf. As I said earlier, we don’t want to serve a God who isn’t powerful. But what we really want is to figure out how to harness that power for our own needs.

Donald: So if you combine what Sharon said with what Don just said—faith and grace—we still want more. We take the pill, we’re grateful. We have the surgery, and we hope it leads to even more healing. It’s complicated.

Don: Which brings us back to your question, Donald: what should we pray for? Should we pray for supernatural events in the natural world? Or are those misplaced prayers?

Donald: Well, Connie said it: “Thy will be done.” Maybe we should stop praying for the outcomes we want, and start praying for understanding, or acceptance. But I don’t know. I think God wants to hear from us—to understand our minds and our hearts. Maybe that’s the point.

Sharon: Why don’t we thank Him more?

Carolyn: Amen.

Sharon: I think if we spent more time thanking and praising God—and asking for less—we might find our prayers aligned more closely with His will. Maybe what we’re asking for isn’t even in His will. Just saying, “Thy will be done,” and focusing on gratitude. The fact that we made it through this week—that’s a supernatural blessing. The fact that we’re here together, from all over the world, sharing in the gospel of grace, sharing this lesson—that’s something to thank Him for.

Rimon: And remember, the night before His crucifixion, Jesus prayed and asked God to take that burden from Him—but then He said, “If it is Your will, let it be.” So I guess the point is, we pray for what we want, but the final word is always God’s will.

Donald: But still—we want specific things. We keep praying for outcomes that are different from what’s actually happening. Sharon, I think you’re absolutely right. We should be grateful for the supernatural blessings we already have. Our very existence is supernatural. We should live in gratitude for that. But we also have specific prayers—for specific things that are beyond what we expect from the natural world. We keep saying, “Thy will be done,” but we also keep asking.

Carolyn: I think the Lord wants us to ask. He wants a relationship with us. He says, “Talk to Me. Tell Me what’s on your heart.” And then, at the end of the conversation, we say, “Thy will be done.” And we thank Him. Like the children in the wilderness—when they weren’t thankful, the blessings didn’t flow as easily. But when they were thankful, they received more. God loves to be thanked.

C-J: The message of the wilderness is: you can’t be led if you stray. If you let someone get too far ahead of you, you lose sight of them. God’s message is, “Stay close to Me.” Just like children—always checking, “Where’s my mom? Are we leaving now?” We’re children being led through the wilderness. It’s not just about thankfulness—it’s about learning.

We’re always learning—at God’s knee, at His elbow, sitting across the table from Him. Each of us is a messenger. Sometimes what someone says in class is something we’ve already thought, but we weren’t sure if it was okay to say. Maybe we wondered, “Is it wrong to think that?” But God says, “Just stay close. That’s all. Stay close.” It’s not about being right or wrong. Just follow Me in the wilderness. “I’ll be the lamp, and I’ll be the path.”

Don: What we want in the wilderness is the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night. We want God to lead us clearly—but sometimes we don’t see those signs. And I wonder: is that because God isn’t providing them? Or is it because we’re not tuned to the right frequency? Maybe there’s a supernatural element at work, but it’s imperceptible, or not immediately obvious.

Reinhard: I think in our natural lives, there’s constant supernatural intervention—we just don’t always realize it. Sometimes we’re protected from danger we didn’t even know we were in—like when we’re driving and something could’ve gone wrong, but didn’t. That’s supernatural protection.

Life itself is supernatural, even if we think of it as natural. Breathing air may seem natural, but the creation of that air, the sun, the stars—all of it comes from the supernatural. We wake up each morning, and the sun rises in the east every time—but it started as a supernatural act.

Prayer is our way of connecting with the supernatural. It’s the one thing we can do. We want to connect with God to ask for all good things. So I think we must stay close to God—through prayer.

Don: But if you look at missionary stories—the ones Sharon might encounter in her frontline ministry—they’re always about God’s providence. Things were going badly, people prayed, and things got better. But the idea that God might be present in the failure? That’s not something we’re comfortable with.

So when prayers go unanswered, the conclusion is often, “Well, you didn’t have enough faith.” That’s why God didn’t act. So we try to bundle our faith—prayer meetings, 24-hour vigils, anointings—as if we can gang up on God with our collective piety and finally get Him to act. We think He’s waiting for us to prove something before He’ll intervene. But that’s faulty theology.

And I think that’s part of the story of Lazarus. What Michael was talking about—Jesus trying to correct our expectations. Sometimes our expectations from prayer are just unrealistic. We teach them to our children, and we believe them ourselves, but they’re not always aligned with how God works.

C-J: I think every day, as ambassadors—or even as solo flyers—in our relationship with God, every day is training day. Those last few reps in the workout are always the hardest. Pain, no gain. And then there’s a time of rest.

Professional athletes now know the importance of rest periods. Spiritually, it’s the same. We’re growing, strengthening, learning—for the mission.

Each of us has a different mission. Each of us grows in different ways. And the stories we tell—those testimonies—are unique to the lives and ministries God has given us.

Carolyn: It says in the Bible, “Where two or three are gathered, there I am in the midst.” That means we have power when we come together. So I’d love to hear more explanation, based on what we’ve just been talking about.

Donald: That ties right into what Don said earlier—about “ganging up” on God. When we gather—okay, now it’s more than just me, Lord. Now I’m really serious. And here’s something else.:I don’t doubt the value of asking for God’s traveling mercies. But does that mean I shouldn’t wear a seatbelt? Should I help God out a little? Should I stop worrying about health and just smoke because I trust God? What role do we play in this natural world in relation to supernatural things?

C-J: I think it goes back to what Carolyn asked—don’t be a stumbling block. Be an example of good choices. That’ll bear good fruit—not just spiritually, but also in the natural world.

We can’t be people who say, “Well, we all have to die from something, so I’m going to smoke, drink, and drive recklessly.” That’s insanity. But there are people who live that way. For us, though, God has given us a window—and with that, an expectation.

He’s saying, “I’ve taught you better than that. I don’t have to keep repeating Myself.” The relationship is one of grace. “I love you. I’ve given you everything you need to live well. So do it—for Me. As a witness. As a testimony of our relationship.”

Don: I think one way to understand Paul’s words—“We don’t know how to pray”—isn’t just about the form or content of prayer, or who prays, or how often. It’s about what we expect from prayer.

We need to reorder our expectations. That’s what needs to be reexamined and restructured in our minds. Because sometimes our expectations are based more on our devotion and the effort we put in, than on what prayer is actually meant to be.

Carolyn: I’d like to ask Michael something based on what Don just said. When someone comes to you in a moment of crisis, in deep need, and they say, “Please pray for me,” what are they really asking? What does that request mean?

C-J: I think they believe your faith is stronger than theirs. They may not feel worthy, but they trust that your relationship with God is real.

Carolyn: I’m shifting the question a bit. I’m asking: what is my responsibility in that moment? What is the weight of that prayer request? Can I really make a difference? Sometimes I doubt. And that doubt affects how I pray. But my communication with God is so important to me. I don’t want that doubt to interfere.

Donald: The men I’ve associated with in Bible Study Fellowship have prayer lists. This is their supernatural list, their roadmap. And it’s shared electronically.

Carolyn: That puts a lot on your shoulders. I think the only way I get through it is to say, “Praise the Lord. Thank you, God, for taking over where I leave off.” That’s the only way I can handle it. Because the need is so big. And I don’t have God’s shoulders. I just don’t.

Don: The good news is—God has just as much interest in your prayers as you do.

Michael: Amen. I just want to close by saying I think we’ve touched on a really important part of the essay. But unfortunately, I think we’ve missed another part—one that I really like: the existential question that Jesus asks, “Where have you laid him?” Where have you put your Lazarus? And maybe—maybe the answer to that question is where the miracle happens. I hope we can all reflect on that.

Donald: Christ knew where Lazarus was.

Michael: Exactly right. He knew—but He still asked. Which means it was about something else.

Donald: It’s like when God asked Adam, “Where are you?” He already knew. The game was up.

Reinhard: In life, we ask God for many things. And sometimes, there’s no response. Even for good people, bad things happen. Paul, for example—he was very close to God. God used him in big ways. But even he had a “thorn in the flesh.” He asked for it to be removed, and God said, “My grace is sufficient for you.”

So I think the most important thing in life is not the outcome we want—but the crown that awaits us. Like Paul said, “The crown is waiting for me.” That’s what we should be focused on.

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